Thank-you for your great ideas on my last post. They were great reminders to me that you have to know your children and find what consequences work for them. I had to laugh at the push-up idea because I could see that working for a couple of my kids, but I think Bud would make mistakes on purpose if he got to do push ups for them - he'd think that was a blast ! :-)
I'm writing this post as a response to a comment which mentioned that a lot of the consequence ideas don't seem to work with younger kids. Keri Tibbets talked about this at her TJEd presentation. I hesitate to share too much of what Keri talked about because she says it so much better than I do and I'm sure her e-book will explain things in a very clear way, but I thought she made an interesting point so I thought I'd share it for this friend that had the concern.
I should probably preface by saying that I have always been rather anti-spanking. I've read a lot on it and it seemed to me that it taught some negative behaviors (although research does show positive outcomes for children under 6, especially boys). I was mostly worried that it would teach my children to use force to get what they wanted and that it would create resentment in our relationship. Furthermore, I was spanked as a child so it was my first "instinct" as discipline when I became a parent, and I knew for sure that spanking in
anger was detrimental and I knew that if I gave myself permission to spank when not in anger - I would slip into it when I was angry.
It took work with Spice and I did spank her a few times when I didn't know what else to do. It was always in anger and I always felt terrible and would apologize afterward. I did better with Bud and he only got a couple of spankings. Little Miss is a naturally obedient child so not spanking her wasn't difficult. The issue has come to my mind again with Bazinks though. He is a sweet, sweet little boy, but he has his determined side. There have been a few times when I will say something like, "Bazinks, that was wrong, you need to go to time-out." And he'll respond with something like, "No, I'm not going to time-out". Then I would respond with something like, "You can either go in there willingly or I'll have to put you in there myself and you'll have to stay in there longer." This usually worked and he'd angrily stomp to time-out. There have been a few times when he would refuse and say, "Then I'll just get out again."
When he was first learning about time-out, I would have to hold him to the corner so that he couldn't get out, but I was never really comfortable with this. I felt like I was letting him get away with a lot of disrespect that wasn't appropriate (wrestling with your mother is disrespectful isn't it?) With Spice and Bud I would sometimes put them in a room and hold the door closed while they threw a tantrum (I read about this in a book) and then when they were ready to be good, I would let them out (or I'd have them clean up anything they threw during their tantrum). Again, I wasn't totally comfortable with this approach because I was letting them get into the habit of throwing tantrums and disrespecting things when they were angry.
So back to Bazinks. When he would say, "Then I'll just get out again," I would respond with something like, "Then I'll just put you back in and you'll have to stay even longer." "Then I'll just keep getting out," he might say. Then I'd go and pick him up, put him in time-out for 6 minutes (instead of 4 since I had to put him in myself) and if he'd get out, I'd put him back in and add another minute and I'd do it again until he got the idea and resigned himself to stay. Thankfully, he's never been a child to try to hurt me when these things are going on (or I might have resorted back to the shutting him in another room method). Again, I wasn't totally comfortable with this approach because it took a lot of my time and he got something that he wanted (my attention) during it all.
Keri talked about the detrimental effects of spanking (kids that react with violence, damaged relationships, etc) and then she said that there was one way to make it a powerful tool for good. Her rule is that for younger children (that are too young to be responsible for doing a job well when it is given as a consequence) that she has found spanking to be a proper consequence when a child disobeys a direct order.
For example, if she says to her child, "Go to time-out" and the child does not obey the direct command, she would take him to a different room (so he wouldn't be embarrassed in front of the others), give him a hard swat on the bottom, comfort him until he stopped crying, and then put him right back where he was and tell him to try again (this is key I think). She would then repeat the command, "Go to time-out" and the child would go. If not, the sequence would get repeated. I thought it was interesting that the child still had to go to time-out after the spanking - the spanking wasn't the alternative punishment if he didn't go to time-out. It was a completely different consequence because of a child's deliberate disobedience.
She said her children quickly learned that disobedience is not an option. They go willingly to time-out when they are told, or quickly obey any other command that is spoken by their parents. This frees her up to give gentle consequences for mistakes and forgetfulness because she is not constantly battling with her children about whether or not they will obey the gentle consequence. This creates a very calm environment where kids learn it is safe to make mistakes and that the gentle consequences to those mistakes are there to help them learn. She said she has been able to stop worrying about teaching obedience and she can move up to teaching higher and better things like manners and respect. She also mentioned that she has had to spank very few times because her children learned very quickly that disobedience was not an option and they got into the habit of obeying.
I wasn't sure what to think of it at first. Someone in the class did ask if there was anything besides spanking that would yield the same results. She responded that she would love to hear about it if anyone found something, but that she has talked to people who have tried different things (locking their child in a car seat, holding them in time-out, etc) and that nothing else seems to give the same result.
Like I said earlier, the idea of spanking had been on my mind a little because of Bazinks' disobedience at times. I've also been reading a lot of older books like Laddie, Little House, Little Britches, etc in which there is a lot of respect for parents and it seems that spanking was a form of discipline in all of them. The stuff I
had tried hadn't taught my children the habit of immediate obedience. I still wasn't sure about it though, and I went home just pondering it a little. There were several things I saw of merit in the approach. One of them was that by picking the child up and taking them to another room, the mom would have a chance to calm down and wouldn't just be "reacting" with throwing out spankings.
The next day gave me a perfect opportunity to think about it some more. Bazinks had been at my mom's house the previous day while we were at the TJEd conference, and, you know how grandmas are, he had eaten more sugar than he's used to, had not slept as long as normal, and had had some screen time (which makes him grumpy). So he was being a little extra rebellious that Sunday. I can't remember what he did at one point, but I told him to go to time-out for it. He said "no" and then started knocking things off the kitchen counter (he was on the counter at the time) just to show us how upset he was. I repeated the command and the usual things I say when he doesn't listen to the initial command (see above). He did eventually go to time-out and we proceeded with our day. A few hours later, he did something again and was told to go to time-out. He again started knocking things off the counter. Obviously the previous lesson was not effective. I decided to try Kerri's method. I picked him up, took him to the bathroom, gave him a swat on the bottom, held him while he cried, took him to where he was and told him to try again. I said, "Go to time-out". He went immediately. A little later in the day he had to go to time-out again. He went immediately. He didn't disobey direct orders the rest of the week. I though I had it made. If I only had to spank him once and he'd obey me for the rest of his life then it was well worth it.
I did have to give spank him again a few weeks later though. I guess the initial lesson wore off and he had to be reminded what happened when he disobeyed. I hated it. It's a lot harder to spank out of duty than out of anger! He has had no problem with it since then. Okay, there have been a few times when he didn't obey
immediately and I went over to get him and he'd remember and obey, but I don't have the heart to spank him anyway for the lack of "immediateness". I suppose it would be more effective if I never let him get away with any disobedience. The habit would be so quickly ingrained and become a part of him. I'm too much of a pushover for that though, so we'll take what we can get. I know I have to work at being consistent because I have to do what I know is best for them even when it's hard. As I said earlier, the older kids get an extra job when they deliberately disobey and this has been effective for them as well.
So there you go. I'm still kind-of wishy-washy on it and I would like to find something that didn't require the spanking. It would have to be something that is quick and doesn't give them a chance to argue or practice their disobedience. I think I've tried almost everything, but nothings else seems to fit that criteria. I've read a lot of books on discipline - my favorite being
A House United by Nicholeen Peck (actually I haven't read her book, but I've been to her 2-day seminar and I really got a lot from it) (Ranee did a good job explaining it in the comments in my last post). I think her methods go hand in hand with those I heard from Keri. One difference might be that Keri doesn't talk about the behavior. She gives the child the consequence and the child is left to think about it on his own. She talked about how if we re-iterate the lesson to our children and lecture them after the consequence that they don't own the lesson like they do when they are left to think about it on their own. I like that point.
I don't know if I can muster another spanking, but I'm beginning to think that it will be the best thing for my child if it really does teach him the habit of obedience. Writing this post has helped me feel more intellectually confident with it. If I truly think it is the best way, then I can make myself do it, despite how much I hate it. I must admit that my little boy seems very happy to know who is in charge so he can just go on being a child without having to worry about testing who really is in charge. He has been even sweeter and happier. I feel more calm as well. We'll see how it goes.
